Unedited Transcript
Rich Lombino Hey everyone, it's Rich Lombino, therapist and lawyer. Welcome and thanks for joining. In this podcast, I explored topics for maintaining good mental health, expanding your knowledge, developing insight and creating and sustaining behavior change with the goal of improving the quality of your personal and professional lives. Alright. Let's get started. Rich Today's topic is how to make and maintain friends as an adult. Rich My guest therapist and author Hope Kelaher, also known as the Friendship Therapist. Rich Hope, thanks for being here. Hope Hi Rich, good morning. Rich Yeah yeah. Rich Doing well. Rich I did want to mention that hope and I met back in Graduate School and we're coming up on actually 10 years this spring and it's hard to believe it's been that long. Hope I know it's crazy. Hope It feels like a long time, but sometimes it doesn't feel as long as it has been a decade kind of crazy rich. Rich I know, I know. Rich Ah. Rich And. Rich Yeah, I could see that 'cause we've both done a pretty good diversity of things in our careers since then, so if you could maybe just spend a couple minutes until the audience a little bit about yourself, that would be great. Hope Sure, well I am a licensed clinical social worker I'm following. Hope Like you know, getting our degrees at Columbia, I studied at a place called the Ackerman Institute. It. Hope For the family and so my specialty is a systemic and relational therapy, which means that I think about the relationship that individuals have with themselves on an intrapsychic level, but also the relationships that people have within the multiple context of their lives with their home life, their work, life, their community life. Hope I consider where people are socially located on the on a more macro level and the ways in which you know our families of origin impacted and influenced the ways that we behave in the wall. Hope And and I am currently located in New York City. Hope Do we need teletherapy for just about a year? Hope This is sort of, at least in my notebook, the anniversary of when covid affected me. Hope So that's a little bit about who I am. Rich Thanks, thanks. Rich That's really that's really helpful. Rich And and thank you for all the work that you do, helping the people that you do. Rich And yeah, I mean we're going to definitely get into how Covid has impacted. Rich Really, all all of us in in different in different ways, not just professionally but personally mental health wise. Rich So I'm glad you you mentioned that. Rich Well, I said earlier author. Rich So who published a book called here to Make Friends? Rich How to make friends as an adult and says advice to help you expand your social circle, nurture meaningful relationships and build a healthier, happier social life? Rich Do you want to take a minute first just? Rich Just you know how did the book come come about? Hope Sure, I think it sort of stemmed from a variety of factors. Hope You know in my practice, you know working with families, but also individuals. Hope I saw a number of folks really struggling to in making friends as young adults as they moved to New York City. Hope Navigating and negotiating work life balance. Hope But also in my personal life, somebody very dear to me was really struggling with social anxiety and making connections. Hope And I I was offered by Ulysses Pass to kind of put out this book and it could not have been a better fit for you, know those clients that I see professionally but also. Hope You know a family member that was really. Hope Struggling and so I think it's it's a topic that a lot of people do talk about, which as you know I'm an upper limit millennial and having had multiple moves in my life and different jobs, it is a struggle to make and maintain friendships, especially for those who might be. Hope A little bit more introverted knew to a certain community or who suffer from social anxiety. Hope So I just thought it, you know, my hope is that people can use this book. Hope I think it's a pretty easy read. Hope They offer lots of tips and opportunities for self reflection, but it can be a useful tool for people an an an A guide. Hope Some of it's very basic but it's always good just to get that refresher. Hope So that's sort of how that came about. Hope Fortunately or unfortunately, the book was. Hope First published in January 2020, just before the pandemic. And so, as you might imagine, and as you and I will be talking about the way in which we make and maintain friendships nowadays will look slightly different than it did in a pre covid world. Rich Yeah, absolutely I would say. Rich That book is so accessible like you had said and it's not dense at all. Rich You can. Rich You can jump into into different different chapters and. Rich And also if after you've read through the whole thing, I've found it personally helpful to go back, and if there's particular topics that resonated with me or I think could be helpful in that particular moment moment where I'm at. Rich It it was good, it's great, and even before covid I think you know personally it it. Rich An lot of people in my life as well, whether they're therapy clients were or otherwise, that expressing difficulty the older you get, the more challenging it could be to make and maintain friends for a variety of factors that will get into. Rich But I think the book. Rich Even though I think what you're saying is it, what it's not geared towards a Co host Covid world because Covid didn't exist when you wrote it, but I think the book is even more import. Rich And now and and it is applicable. Rich All of the content in there too, to what people are experiencing now because it's that much difficult to to meet people and and not just meet them. Rich Because it's not. Rich Rich I I really, I've always felt that maintaining relationships is the most important part of it because you could be introduced to people all the time. Rich But if you don't make that effort and the other person makes doesn't make that effort to grow the relationship, it's just going to stall and kind of fade away. Hope So true, rach. Hope So true. Hope And I think you know I see a lot of folks struggle as they emerged into young adulthood and maintaining friendships they're disconnected from. Hope Maybe anchor institutions such as you know, college or hometown, and then they're forced to work, and then, especially as people. Hope Have life course transitions that include families. Hope A lot of that attention will go to the family or an intimate relationship and not enough time. Hope I think for many people spent on maintaining their friendship. Hope And the cost. Hope And this is something that they've seen too many times in my own practice is that when people reach retirement, they've only focus on their employment or their family, and then it. Hope Hi. Hope Hope It's, you know, even harder, to reintegrate and to make friends. Hope So I think. Hope You know, we know that there's so much research out there that indicates that people who are part of Community. Hope Have you know improve mental health and outcomes happier, healthier lives you know and we need evolve to some extent from you know living and working in communities. Hope And so I think it's so important that we that we all make a concerted effort to sustain, maintain friendships and community. Rich Yeah, yeah, absolutely especially now. I mean, I think everyone's can have some feelings of isolation even if you do have people in your life like you're saying, because we really, I think, need a an. It sounds like what you're saying need a variety of relationships in our lives. Rich And as each stage that we go through, if we, if we're single and then the next if we couple up with someone. Rich And. Rich Oftentimes whatever relationships we have outside the couple. Rich They're just not as active anymore because you're you're taking up time with the person, the new person who's who's in your life, or if you're still single and you're close group. Rich Develop relationships with other people you have less access. Rich To them, and that could really cause cause isolation even though you know theoretically you have all these people in your life and they're good friends. Rich Just lives. Rich Get busy and the reality is they just don't have as much time so. Rich Making that that effort to reach out and maintain, yeah. Hope Yep, so true. Hope You know not to kind of go back to my own experiences with covid, but you know the community that I had in New York City. Hope A lot of people had a, you know, decided to relocate and so that becomes even. Hope More challenging to mantiene that sense of community via the Internet or phone or text or DM, so I think it's it's changed some things really, I think causing this. Hope Longing for so many to you know. Hope You join the community or make a new community during this time. Rich Yeah, absolutely. Rich Well, how about what do you think? How about you talk a little bit about some of the techniques that you describe in the book, and maybe if if there's sort of 2.0 updates on how you know, given it's a covid world as opposed to a pre covid world, how I'm sure a lot of it. Rich Would be totally applicable, but if there are any instances where hey, here's a supplement to that initial tip given the fact. Rich That were mostly communicating online or video or phone. Rich What do you think? Hope Sure, I think that sounds great. Hope I think it's you know it's first important to really know what type of personality you have. Hope Are you an introvert? Hope Are you an extrovert or you and ambivert? Hope Because you always wanna set up realistic expectations for yourself. Hope I I truly believe in setting people up for success. Hope So I think the first step is really figuring out what capacity you have. Hope So for instance. Hope Introvert introverts rather, you know, tend to recharge, having alone time. Hope So when you're trying to make friends really knowing your limits so supplementing in person time with friends, perhaps with social media, maintaining and following up with friends using social media can be really helpful. Hope Seeking out people like yourself. Hope You know, if you're an introvert and you're interested in extroverted, that person. Hope Will you have capacity for that person or that group of people? Hope For being very intentional on scheduling fun dates, you know, for instance, I'm going to be spending time with her friend this afternoon and you know, she's a little bit more introverted and one on one. Hope Gatherings are a little bit easier for her if you lean on the more extroverted side. Hope Extroverted side I think it's important to really make quality time count. Hope Sometimes extroverts just like to go out there and be social in large groups of people. Hope But really, focusing on quality, not necessarily the quantity of time learning to sit in the discomforts of silence, and maybe other people, I think, is also important for an extrovert, like looking to make friends. Hope Side note I I imagine that you know for extraverts when they. Hope We integrate into a post covered world. Hope It might be harder to sit in that discomfort because they've been longing for that connect. Hope Then, and if you're an ambivert, which is a blend of an introvert and extrovert, you know you probably have a greater capacity for meeting friends because you already know your balance. Hope You know, I, you know truth be told which prepandemic I would qualify myself as a Luddite. Hope I am not a big fan of technology. Hope I do believe that there is a lot of value in in person connection and I do encourage people to try. Hope And that so you know, typically some tips of making friends is to really try to be as open as possible. Hope You know, thinking about the types of people you are typically attracted to and going to places where you might find those people. Hope If you like golfing, you know, going to the golf course. Hope Taking classes might be helpful. Hope You know, asking friends to introduce you to other friends if your if your social life has mainly been on line as it has been for many people taking those relationships to an in person experience. Hope You know, following up when people deal invites you would you reach out. Hope To connect with you. Hope You know, I I something that I think has been pretty. Hope I'm popular during the pandemic. Hope Is getting a pet, you know I have a dog and without my my dog. Hope During the pandemic I don't think I would have been left without a community. Hope A lot of my community left New York City as I. Hope As I mentioned an. Hope Through my dog I was able to meet a number of you friends at the dog park taking her out on on walks. Hope You know, people are always curious about dogs and it's really nice buffer or animals to to get to know people. Rich Yeah, definitely. Rich Definitely. Rich Rich Yeah, I mean dogs. Rich They provide often usually that unconditional love that they're so happy to see you when you get home, and I think. Rich I don't know, this is just my opinion, but they they could almost sense. Rich Like if you're not doing well if you're feeling kind of down, they might snuggle up against you a little more than than normal. Rich So yeah, you're right. Rich I think I can imagine it. Rich It's a. Rich It's a real benefit to have. Rich Having a dog or really any any animal there as opposed to just kind of. Rich Being their static, so this will. Hope Totally and and some other opportunity is, you know, just talking about some of my clientsexperiencesmeetup.com is a great way to explore different types of communities. You know I have a friend who sort of. Hope Stayed out, you know the quarantine in California and was able to meet you and interesting people through some hiking groups that they participated in. Hope You know the. Hope Hope You know, this particular person is very athletic and likes to work out and so we go to the beach and would find different groups to workout with. Hope I I mean, given this person you know, does not suffer from any limitations like social anxiety and it's pretty confident in doing that, so that might not be the greatest fit for some other people. Hope So, but also examining your networks, something that I can speak. Hope To in my kind of coded survival state is really exploring old networks that I had. Hope So considering that you know some of my closest community members left the city, I was able to reconnect with people from. Hope My hometown through social media. Hope You know people from college an also through, you know, just. Hope Even in my building being being willing to come to say hi to somebody in the elevator. Hope Anne and the Legius networks are also a great opportunity for a number of people. Hope You know, and in my book I do kind of talk about ways to lend your virtual community to your. Hope Your life would be though community an number of friendship. Hope Finding websites such as Bumble or friender or click or peanut or Scout. Hope Can really help connect people who are interested in making that first step, but perhaps. Hope Would not be not best suited to just like walking up and talking to somebody. Hope Sort of that. Hope That sort of that that that it can be easier for people to connect virtually. Rich Yeah, absolutely. Rich And you know what's great is there are especially with the weather getting better in a lot of areas of the country. Rich There's outdoor activities that you can do even if you know you and the others haven't had a vaccine yet, that can be safe, and you mentioned like one example you gave was was golf for example. Rich You can social distance wear masks and still be able to talk to people and have that that interaction so. Rich Up Rich Rich I think that's a great point that you're making that OK. Rich You know 'cause there's a varying sort of risk tolerance that people have. Rich Some people are more comfortable eating in restaurants right now. Rich As long as everyone is wearing masks and other people don't want to, don't want to do that so, but sort of thinking outside the box. Rich What are some activities that we could do outside? Rich So it's a great. Hope Point right so. Hope Golf is 1. Hope Tennis is another. Hope Hiking is another rock climbing I've been hearing. Hope Some people take too. Hope Volleyball volleyball is another activity that has social distance softball baseball. Hope I think people would be, you know, surprised to think about the number gardening is another one that can be socially distanced. Hope I mean, I, I do think that I do think you know the thing that comes up or is coming up a lot for me. Hope Now in my own practice, which is this concept of the social battery that you know a lot of us have been quarantined for such a long time. Hope Some of us intermittently quarantine. Hope But that the capacity for in vivo socialization has diminished. Hope You know, I'll give you an example I have. Hope I'm working with a middle school child who's going into high school next year and you know one of her concerns was will I be able to? Hope How am I going to? Hope Perform when I go back to school. Hope I haven't been in person school in a year and a half. Right? Hope Math. Hope Yes. Hope Hope And so I think a lot of people are having anxiety, especially if socialization was making friends with hard to begin with. Hope And so some tips around that that I can offer is go for the low hanging fruit, meaning if you are inclined first, I think at this point it is important for people to actually get outside of their homes. Hope Whether that's a walk around the. Hope Block if they feel safe enough to go to the grocery store, but practicing with those very very small like socialization experiences. Hope If you are not comfortable going outside to a restaurant or indoor dining, then. Hope Go get a Cup of coffee. Hope You know, say hello to the coffee person, just practice. Hope Practice engaging with people. Hope If you haven't done enough of that during the covid period, you know one thing I'm seeing is that some people are really kind of taking some of their virtual experiences in person. Hope They're setting up like friend dates. Hope They're scheduling time for themselves to meet with other people. Hope Well, that can be helpful and I know you know I'm an upper limit millennial, but a lot of my. Hope Pierce really use text text in DM to communicate. Hope One option is to like get on the phone and have a voice conversation with people that will, from my perspective, increase your capacity for reintegration after covid. Hope When we are expected, you know, not expected. Hope But like if you want to go and spend time with people you want to build up that muscle again. Hope Some of us haven't really had many opportunities to workout those muscles, so finding the low hanging fruits where we can remember when we were in offices. Hope He had the, you know, the water cooler conversations, the. Hope The checking in with, you know the receptionist answering the phone on and so for some of us it's it's, uh, it will be. Hope It might be harder to be integrate after, so finding those low hanging fruits practicing, flexing those muscles, starting slow if. Hope Social anxiety is something that you experience a meeting with one or two people. Hope Uhm, you know those are just some some thoughts and I think that meetup.com can really support people in that way. Years ago I worked with a client and her one of her challenges was social anxiety and she was able to find a meet up group where other people Hope Suffered from social anxiety as well and they would just go on walks where they didn't talk. Hope So I'm very hopeful that people can can sort of re emerge in at healthy and comfortable way. Rich Yeah, that's great. Rich That's a lot of tips right there and. Rich Really setting realistic goals for yourself and I always say you know somebody is ambitious. Rich There's nothing wrong with being ambitious, but if you're trying to start new behavior, improve existing behavior. Rich Really, starting with absolutely realistic and achievable goals is the way to go because. Rich If you know you're gonna, even if it seems like oh, you know I could work out three days a week, why should I start working out one day a week or only 15 minutes instead of an hour? Rich It's like, well, the goal is to kind of build things up, not just your muscles physically, but the the momentum. Rich Get get it going and feel good about yourself that hey, I worked out today as opposed to. Rich Skipping a day, that sort of thing. Rich So I think that that point for me. Rich I mean, you said a lot of good points, but that really resonated with me because it could seem if it seems overwhelming then. Rich Just like he said, the low hanging fruit start super small and go from there so hope do you want to touch on anything, anything else. Hope I, I think to your point, which is to have compassion for yourself, realizing that you know first setting realistic expectations for yourself, but also like being kind to yourself if it doesn't feel comfortable, or if it doesn't. Hope Work. Hope How a lot of people tend to internalize rejection or failure, but you know, friend finding is sort of like dating. Hope Not everybody is going to be a good enough fit, and it doesn't necessarily have to do with anything you did. Hope And so I really want people to. Hope Practice compassion. Hope You know when, when, when their friend finding in a pre versus post covid Hope World 'cause that's very important. Hope Sometimes people can be really affected by rejection, but keep on moving. Hope You will find your people. Hope They're out there, I promise. Rich That's really great hope and optimistic for the future, and there are opportunities out there. Rich And you know, try and try out a lot of the tips that you get. Yes. Rich In the book, because some you may already know, but just haven't done in awhile, and some you really didn't maybe think about so it's it's a good combination of both. Rich So yeah, so by the book I I bought mine on Amazon is that is that where you would suggest people go to or are there other places? Hope Sure, people can go to Amazon. Hope I think that's probably the easiest place, and it's in paperback, and there's an audible. Hope Then and people can find me on on Instagram. Hope And as the friendship here, that's if they wanna check out some more of my tips. Rich Sounds great. Rich Alright, well really really appreciate you being here man and you know it's good to just reconnect with, you know on a personal level so I wish you all the best. Hope Absolutely thank you Rich for having me. Rich Well, that's it for this podcast episode. Rich Please subscribe, rate and comment and share on social media and otherwise. Rich Visitrichlambino.com to learn more about my counseling practice. See how to contact me? Connect with me on social media and read my blog and E books to learn about other topics. Most importantly, if you or someone you know are looking for more support, I'm here for you. I look forward to you joining me for other podcast episodes. Rich Take care and be well.
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